ATG
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:32 pm
 Subject: 250cc Shootout

FWIW

http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2009-250cc-streetbike-shootout-88953.html
funkshn
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:06 pm
 Subject: Re: 250cc Shootout

Kind of a "duh"....
"Impressive figures in this crowd, but who wants to scream around at 10K rpm all the time? The reality is that most folks gleefully whipping around on the Ninja will be doing so on surface streets. The engine will spend the majority of its time in lower rpms in this environment, and it?s at these lower revs where the Kawi suffers."

Lower revs? These guys clearly haven't followed me around on my commute. I have started to unconsciously downshift when revs drop below 7K. I ride it the way it's intended, and it kicks ass.

I do agree with their crush on the TU250X, though. It's a great bike. Like the Ninja, it has incredible handling in the twisties. I wouldn't replace my Ninja with one, but if gas hits $8 a gallon, that would be the one to have.
MyLittleGreenRocket
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:31 pm
 Subject: Re: 250cc Shootout

the new, higher price of the Ninja 250 is really going to hurt its sales numbers, especially without any fuel injection. Up to $4499 now?
Good thing they didn't have any quality issues with it, but I think that would be expected.

I also shift at least at 7,000 rpm all the time and someone just wanting to cruise around cheaply would probably get the little Suzuki.
JoeDane
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:35 pm
 Subject: Re: 250cc Shootout

1) unreliable piece of crap (they even said it, in a PC way)
2) its a scooter!!!
3) you better have a GOOD warranty for this one!
4) reliable, tried and true 250 champion (year after year)
5) seems promising (FI) but, its a baby cruiser...
jwd0310
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:39 pm
 Subject: I, for one, welcome our new korean overlords

Not really, the Ninja is still the best but some of the other ones look exciting. I thought long and hard about the Hyosung before I bought my Ninja. I've never heard Johnny Pag, but its a great looking bike. Maybe in a few years they'll have the bugs sorted out and there will be some real competition in this market.
autocracy
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:42 pm
 Subject: Ah, such a nice quote...

"...the Ninja found a home ... with cagey veteran riders looking to embarrass bigger bikes in the canyons."
Urban Guerrilla
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:05 pm
 Subject: :thumbup: Very gratifying to see that some others 'get it'

(even though that statement may well inspire a few squids into the ninja fold)
algerath
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:28 pm
 Subject: maybe if a squid spends some time on a 250 they will stop being a squid!

babe
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:34 pm
 Subject: :D

Bokonon
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:57 pm
 Subject: The mags all seem to like the Suzuki TU250.

So far I've seen this one, Motorcyclist, and Motorcycle Consumer News heaping praises on it. If someone likes the styling and doesn't need the Ninja HP, I think it would be a fun bike to have. They all say it handles well and is beginner-friendly.

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval.asp

TimC
Post Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:10 pm
 Subject: Re: 250cc Shootout

funkshn wrote:
Lower revs? These guys clearly haven't followed me around on my commute. I have started to unconsciously downshift when revs drop below 7K. I ride it the way it's intended, and it kicks ass.


I find it interesting that the new bike sacrificed the top end hit for mid-range, yet since there ain't much of that to be had from a 250 parallel twin anyway, I really question if it was necessary or even desirable to do this.

On the knee cutouts in the tank - yup, I actually sat on a new one after only looking all this time, and sure enough my knees rest right on the ridge (6'2" explains this). The tester in the article didn't seem to mind too much, but for me it's as much a deal-breaker as the changes to the powerband and instrument panel are.

The other bikes...hmmm, I hadn't heard of 2 or 3 of them. I could see the Suzuki, but only if I was in the market for truly beginner bike, or workhorse for getting around Saigon effectively or something (same as Honda Nighthawk 250 I think it is, the standard I rode in MSF). The Hyosung comes off better in this test than in others I've read; for me it's still an unknown and I can't see why it would be worth bothering with over the Ninja, unless you just have to be different or feel more sporting in the riding position - though the FI and engine performance appears to be enough to really put Kawi in a hard place as far as price vs giving us FI.

Edit: That last is where things are really tough for the US market - we are basically screwed. I just don't see a market for ZX-2R or GSX-R250 etc, even though that would really kick serious ass...imagine about 40 hp or so in the right chassis - I'd pay 8 grand for it, and I suspect a few around here would too, but yeah right.

Edit2: Hrmph, I'd never actually looked at older GSX-R250 specs - they already had 45hp in late 80s/early 90s models. C'mon Zook, I know you're as tired of Kawi pussyfooting around as I am....
loudboys
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:09 am
 Subject: Plus, it would take an hour to make it into a neato mini-cafe bike.

MyLittleGreenRocket
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:58 am
 Subject: do they still make the Zongshen?

Just saw this other 250 for sale and it looks like it's got a few upgrades versus the new Ninja 250.
Dual front disks, better seats...

This is a 2006 model for sale:
http://www.delamo-motorsports.com/showcaseproductdetail.htm?ID=1556769&Used=1&sort=model&type=text&order=ascending&Model=2006%20Zongshen%20ZS%20250GS

for $1299 there's gotta be a catch, right?
cradleofwickedness
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:16 am
 Subject: Guy at work told me that my 250 sucks because

"his R6 can do 160 down the interstate" Lol! What a great future grease spot on the pavement right? I know lol.
nts472
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:08 am
 Subject: best answer to an dumb statement like that is

"thats it? Wow thats pretty gay, station wagons can do 160 now days. I guess they dropped the ball in performance."

for the record any car with 250hp+, non limited, and geared enough can kiss 160 including several station wagons indeed
jwd0310
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:29 am
 Subject: I usually just ask what they're compensating for.

FrugalNinja250
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:35 pm
 Subject: RGV-250 specs from 1993

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://motoprofi.com/bikephoto/2148/suzuki_rgv_250_1993_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://motoprofi.com/motospecspictures/suzuki/rgv_250-1993.html&usg=__CwkicFBv3432f0gqe97ZuLIBz5k=&h=479&w=640&sz=73&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=a9ftZmsK4IcMPM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsuzuki%2B250%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26um%3D1

68 horsepower at 11k rpm... hmm... that's more impressive than the 4-cylinder Ninja 250's 45 HP.

Also, I remember seeing an Asian-spec 250 Ninja sport-looking bike by Suzuki that had the fuel tank under the seat and a lockable weather-tight trunk in what appeared to be the fuel tank. The trunk was big enough to store a helmet in. The article stated that range was short, though, due to the fuel tank only holding two or three gallons.
TimC
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:40 pm
 Subject: Nice, though 2-stroke is kinda cheating :).

loudboys
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:47 pm
 Subject: Upgrade?!?!?!

So, according to you, if you take this:


build it with slave/underage labor in China, add a bunch of plastic bodywork and an extra (yep, extra; a bike as light as the Ninja 250 doesn't gain anything by adding a second front disc) front brake, it's an upgrade?

I don't think so.
Urban Guerrilla
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:01 pm
 Subject: My first reaction might be..

"You're an idiot because you'll do 160 on the interstate", but then I would realize that even trying to reason with someone like that is 90% prob a waste of energy. I think I'd be more likely to tell him that's why he is just so much cooler than me (at least trying to hide that whiff of condescendtion Wink ), and walk away..
cradleofwickedness
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:06 pm
 Subject: Re: My first reaction might be..

thats why i just laughed it off and thought "Ok what ever you say squid"
Dizo
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:09 pm
 Subject: Re: best answer to an dumb statement like that is

Audi's station wagon can far surpass the 160 mark even in a short straight.

R6's have their place, so do our little 250's.
Urban Guerrilla
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:10 pm
 Subject: Yep, pretty much the same thing.

Some people are not worth the effort to attempt to enlighten..
nts472
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:32 pm
 Subject: different take on the matter, sometimes minds games can be fun

if your not in the mood or flat out don't care i'm with you, but every now and then its good to toy with someone with false machismo
Urban Guerrilla
Post Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:13 pm
 Subject: Most of the time I don't care, but it depends on my mood...

The way I describe it, sometimes an asshole's ego can be like an overinflated balloon, and I strive to be the prick that can help to 'normalize' things.. Very Happy

I'm looking to buy a house, and am going to be giving up my rent stabilized apartment. I have a 'new' landlord; someone bought the 10 remaining units in the coop building as an investment about two years ago. He has been exceptionally arrogant and sleazy at every opportunity. After threatening to force me out when he first bought my unit, his latest trick was to try to manipulate my lease end date to effectively double the regulated rent increase (bunch of lesser things too, things like trying to claim my security deposit was $0). I repeatedly pointed these errors out to him and he repeatedly told me I was wrong, and refused to correct the 'errors'.

We have just had a final ruling on our complaint (and the appeal I filed when I got everything I asked for but one remaining point) with the governing body on these matters. We (mere laypeople) absolutely spanked the landlord and his 'highly qualified' attorney. They gave us every point, effectively called him a liar, and started looking at him for other violations. Now that was gratifying..
Gippos
Post Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:41 am
 Subject: Re: Guy at work told me that my 250 sucks because

There was a "kid" I met over the summer that had a Ninja 250. I told him about this site. Then he tells me he'd already broken his collar bone (no doubt trying to do tricks), and said the Ninja was too slow & he wanted to upgrade.

I then told him to forget about this site.
kawatwo
Post Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:14 pm
 Subject: Re: Ah, such a nice quote...

My favorite of all time is from the 1986 road test of the first 250 ninja.

"On backroads the ninja can run at escape velocity. You look for your riding partner, gripping 50 more horsepower in his right hand and find...nobody."

Oh yes, I miss Cycle. Good test btw. I think I would take the ninja over the TU but I see the appeal. It is a pretty bike and would be good for putting around town and backroads.



autocracy wrote:
"...the Ninja found a home ... with cagey veteran riders looking to embarrass bigger bikes in the canyons."
loudboys
Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:49 am
 Subject: Sometimes I miss Cycle...

but then I remember I used to have to buy 2 mags to get Egan's and Cameron's columns; now they're back to back in the same mag.

If Cycle World would just hire Salvadori too, I'd be down to 2 motorcycle mags monthly (CW and Roadrunner).

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