[Bill Hoddinott - VA]

Most here are aware of my 100K mile roadtest report on my '88 250 Ninja, which I got with 8600 miles from a friend in '91. At 87K miles, I replaced the engine with one from a 1700 mile '01 bike, since I decided the camchain was getting dangerously worn and might snap which would take out the crankcase.

This morning the odometer showed 17,616 after my ride. This means 30K plus miles since the beginning of my current experiment.

At 86,970 miles I installed the '01 engine, and at that time checked and adjusted the tappets, put in a new oil filter and an oil change to 5W-30 non-synthetic car oil from Walmart. It happened to be Havoline oil, but any name brand would be just as good. The date was March 25, 2004.

Since then I have done NO engine maintenance except change the oil twice a year, using the same oil and sometimes Quaker State, but all 5W-30.

To date oil consumption has been zero between changes, mechanical noise remains the same as always (substantial like all these bikes), idling is perfect as are cold and hot starting. Most of the use is highway cruising at 65-75 mph and the gas mileage on 87 gas is always 70+ mpg.

I dunno what the tappet clearances are, but they must be pretty close to spec based on the perfect running.

My plan is to carry on like this until I eventually get hot-starting problems due to the increase in the spark plug gaps due to wear and erosion (based on previous experience I expect that around 40K miles). At that point I will check the tappets and replace the plugs. I will then also remove and check the oil filter for detritus caught in the external folds of the paper. If not enough to bother about, I may just put it back in there.

This bike is a great way to enjoy motorcycling for cheap, and I like it more than any of the heavy bikes I've owned and ridden for the last 52 years. It handles better, is more comfortable, and safer. Annual liability insurance with State Farm is about $82 and taxes are almost nil. What's not to like?

[caddydaddy]

Is the cost of a timing chain replacement more than installing a used engine? I'm just trying to figure out why you'd replace an engine just because the timing chain is worn.

[Bill Hoddinott - VA]

It means complete engine dismantling to replace the camchain, unless you are clever enough to find a way to replace it in place. This is a silent running Morse-type chain, not a roller chain. People used to be able to replace roller chains without dismanting, and rivet them up with a master link, and go on. But I know of no resource for doing it with this Morse chain.

[Marylin]

speaking of chains - have you ever had to replace the drive chain? What about tension?

[Wes]

Hi, Bill!

Did you ever try to replace the cam chain on yours? I was looking at SwiftOne's the engine the other day (long story -- see elsewhere on the board), and was wondering if it could be done without splitting the cases.

What do you think? With the cams off, do you think you could pull the chain down the well and out the clutch cover? What about with the clutch basket out?

Wes

[PocketRocket]

[Bill Hoddinott - VA]

Sure, I use the Tsubaki Omega o-ring chain from Dennis Kirk with a riveting master link and they last about 22K miles. I lube them once in a while with 90 wt gear oil and a utility brush. I tried the DVD which costs a little less, but the Tsubaki has given me the most miles for the $ and lasted much longer.

[tjoseph]

[Bill Hoddinott - VA]

An excellent question and the answer is I doubt it but I wish someone here who knows for sure, by trying it, would say!

But the problem may not be only getting the old one off and out, we could cut through the chain with some kind of suitable cutting disc and a high speed grinder and it might be extractable that way. An even bigger problem would be could you get the new one back in there in one piece? The manual doesn't say you can, it doesn't say you can't. The manual seems to assume you will dismantle the whole engine in the process of chain installation, or rather to be more exact, install the chain during the process of assembling the whole engine.

It doesn't look like there's enough clearance under the crankshaft gear outboard of the chain sprocket, to the assembled case, to get the chain under it, especially since it has to go up into the tunnel at the same time.

Or, with the cam sprockets off, the new chain in one piece could drop down into the tunnel from the top, but then it wouldn't be able to get around the crankshaft gear sideways to loop back onto the chain sprocket on the crank.

[Marylin]

Thanks. I got 11,000 miles on my bike and the chain needs adjusting. I had it adjusted once before when I had the rear tire changed. What would you say might happen if the chain is not kept at proper tension as it 'stretches' - crooked teeth on sprocket?

[sonny]

[Wes]

My chain gets adjusted fairly often. This is a normal thing.

Too little play in the chain will restrict swingarm motion and cause accelerated wear of chain, sprockets, and transmission components.

Excess play will cause the chain to slap the swingarm and ride up on the sprockets. Riding up on the sprockets means that you can bend or wear the top of the teeth. In extreme cases, you could even throw the chain right off.

Too loose is better than too tight, but both should be avoided through careful maintenance.

Wes

[Wes]

> But the problem may not be only getting the old one off and out,

You're right, even a drive chain is no match for a dremel tool. Although I don't cut them any more, I have decided from now on to only use low-mile chains + sprockets from crashed bikes. It's cheaper, although I have to drop the swing arm for chain changes. By the way, we discussed my swingarm rust a few years ago; I am happy to report that this spring, it was still okay and packed full of grease. Rather than the factory sewming machine oil, I used regular black moly grease. Possibly with a clay soap (Canadian Tire house brand).

> An even bigger problem would be could you get the new one back in there in one piece?

That's the million dollar question, isn't it?



Right there, that gear. If it can come off, or the chain can slip around it.??

Hmmm, I guess the other question is -- what is inside that cam chain well? Will the cam guide be in the way with the tensioner removed?

> The manual seems to assume you will dismantle the whole engine in the process
> of chain installation, or rather to be more exact, install the chain during the process
> of assembling the whole engine.

I was just theorizing with SwiftOne over hamburgers the other day... I think the manual was written by an engineer who build one or two of these bikes from the ground up... but never actually SERVICED one.

There are MANY tasks where they suggest doing "too much" work in my opinion. Like removing the radiator for a valve adjustment. Or removing both exhaust pipes, the shifter, the rear brake, and both foot peg stays to inspect the swingarm bearings.

Wes

[holyman]

I tried installing a new cam chain without splitting the cases, and it just wouldn't go, without pulling sprockets...

I was lucky enough to find a guy that buys the cam chain in long lengths, and has a tiny little chain break/pin pusher-outer thingy, and he made one to length for me, just had to carefully pop it back together once it was threaded through...

so far i've gotten about 13.5K km out of it without any sign of problems, i've had the clutch cover off and (by hand, plugs out) turned the motor over and checked it... it still looks perfect...

oh, and Bill, thanks for the update, hopefully we can all experience long lasting bikes... not worrying seems to make the ride that much more enjoyable,

safe riding, take care...

[Wes]

[Marylin]

[holyman]

yeah, didn't want to try and cut it anywhere near the the engine, so i pulled them so i could let the old camchain hang below the engine for cutting... then i fed some electrical wire through the new one, and slowly pulled it through...

by the way, the tensioner was out, and the guides didn't give me any hassles...

oh, and i also had the clutch basket removed, just to give me more room, though, i think it could be done with it still in there, it would just be real fiddly...

[Wes]

[Marylin]

[fivespeedg]

Good to know these motors will run for a very long time if taken care of properly...

I'm coming up on 30k on my '03 Ninja 250. From what I can tell, all the drivetrain is stock and untouched, but was taken care of very well. I've been the owner for the last 6k. This bike belonged to a board member some time ago and I've pulled up old posts about it...FWIW, it's been in good hands.

Most of the 30k maintenance has been done early, so the bike rolling over to the big 30 will be a non-event. I severely doubt I'll own the bike for another 10k, but in the event I do, it will be nice to know it's got the ability to keep on ticking! Or, maybe I'll keep it as a commuter and be the second one to post about the mighty Ninja rolling over to 100k.

[Wes]

> Or, maybe I'll keep it as a commuter and be the second one to post about the mighty Ninja rolling over to 100k.

Fourth.

First was Leon Begeman (IBR 2003 12th place on a Ninja 250)

Second was some guy named Kevin who only lasted in the forums a few days before vanishing.

Third is Bill H

I think you'd make a fantastic fourth.

Wes

[donalexinder24]

It's comforting to know that if properly maintained, these motors will last a very long time...

My '03 Ninja 250 is approaching 30k miles. All of the drivetrain appears to be stock and undamaged, however it has been carefully maintained. For the last 6k, I've been the owner. This bike used to belong to a board member, and I dug out some old postings about it... It's been in good hands, to be sure. turkish citizenship