AlbertE
Post Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:54 pm
 Subject: For this I went to college?

al.jpg
geekonabike
Post Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:54 am
 Subject: Looks relatively good. :D
Personally I studied physiology, because I mis-heard something about a brownie in motion. Confused

--Mike D.

PS: Sorry, had to edit the spelling mistake.
Wes
Post Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:56 am
 Subject: That would physical chemistry, and your mis-spelling ruined the joke. ;)
ithaca00
Post Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:00 pm
 Subject: :facepalm: haghahah
geekonabike
Post Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:43 pm
 Subject: Edit to the rescue! Ya know, an admin could have helped out!
Instead of rubbing it in!

OK, dammit, I was in a hurry to get the kid out the door for Sunday school. Ended up skipping mass because I had to troubleshoot that all the drains weren't draining. I wasn't in any shape for church! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy So it's been one of those days. I wonder if the lye junk will really clean the pipe to the sewer. Guess I'll find out in a few hours. I know a lot more about my house's plumbing now, since there aren't any plumbers around here who work on Sunday, even for "emergencies."

Have a NICE DAY! Mad

--Mike D.
geekonabike
Post Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:45 pm
 Subject: Why I studied math?
I ended up in a course on group theory.

I thought I signed up for group therapy. Face palm

--Mike D.

PS: Then there's poor Einstein. As if he weren't tense enough, he had to study even Tensor Analysis! Very Happy

(Checks spelling......OK....I guess....)
gbwinger
Post Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:06 pm
 Subject: I never knew A.E. wore Birkenstocks. Cool! He's my fav. Gerry
Ionized
Post Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:57 pm
 Subject: Re: I never knew A.E. wore Birkenstocks. Cool! He's my fav. Gerry
He was a plagiarist and his wife did most of his work for him without getting the credit.

Honestly I can't stand Einstein.

Now Hannes Alfven, he is a physicist that I respect!
Payne
Post Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:18 pm
 Subject: Man, the plaque shows just how large that sculpture is.
ithaca00
Post Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:53 pm
 Subject: Re: Man, the plaque shows just how large that sculpture is.
Or that there's a mini-me version of the plaque floating around somewhere...
MIK
Post Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:34 pm
 Subject: lol
Bokonon
Post Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:26 pm
 Subject: :rofl:
geekonabike
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:18 am
 Subject: That's one take on history.
Ionized wrote:
He was a plagiarist and his wife did most of his work for him without getting the credit.

Honestly I can't stand Einstein.

Now Hannes Alfven, he is a physicist that I respect!


Probably nobody alive knows for sure the extent that they "collaborated." From Widipedia:

Quote:
...Mileva Marić, also entered the Polytechnic to study mathematics and physics, being the only woman in the group. During the next few years, Einstein and Marić's friendship developed into romance. Einstein graduated in 1900 from the Polytechnic with a diploma in mathematics and physics,[12] whereas Marić failed her final exams.


Was it sexism that kept her from passing?

They divorced in 1919. Also from Wiki:

Quote:
Annus Mirabilis papers

The question whether (and if so, to what extent) Marić contributed anything at all to Einstein's Annus Mirabilis Papers is controversial. However, the overwhelming consensus, among professional historians of science, is that she did not. [26]


Hard to draw a strong conclusion of plagiarism from that, though his best work happened when they were together. Then again, Newton retired to a simpler life after his best works.

--Mike D.
Ionized
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:30 am
 Subject: Re: That's one take on history.
The book "Albert Einstein: The incorrigible plagiarist" by Christopher Jon Bjerknes gives compelling evidence that indeed both Einstein and his wife worked together to produce Einsteins relativity papers.

Historical evidence also indicates that it was not the Einsteins that 'discovered' relativity in its 1905 form, but instead Larmor, Poincare, Lorentz, Lange, Voigt and others. Indeed it is a curious fact that the 1905 paper included no references, perhaps to lend the air of originality? It can be argued that there was nothing new introduced by Einstein other than a clever disguise for the work of others.

But this isn't my only problem with Einstein. His status as an idol has plagued the further development of physical science, especially in the realm of cosmology. But this isn't merely Einsteins fault, it is the way that status quo 'science' is handed down to each generation as a set of 'known' facts. So few students of physics are taught about the history and original interpretations, the paradigms. In fact, they are left to their own device for learning such things and often ridiculed when truths are discovered that go against the mainstream interpretation.

OK, you caught me, I am extremely jaded after having studied plasma astrophysics and cosmology and fighting against the status quo and their absurd dogmatic paradigm. All hail gravity! There is no EMAG, just ignore it!
geekonabike
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:35 pm
 Subject: He bugs me too, but I'll respect his works still.
Ionized wrote:
The book "Albert Einstein: The incorrigible plagiarist" by Christopher Jon Bjerknes gives compelling evidence that indeed both Einstein and his wife worked together to produce Einsteins relativity papers.


It may be all true, though one would hope historians--perhaps not physics types--would be able to look at the evidence. It's quite possible he worked with his wife. I work with mine now and then, because she has some slick math tricks she picked up in her training on the other side of the world, but I help her with her work too. We claim that part for which we're the major driving force, but help each other on some details, usually out of context.

One book doesn't prove much. Authors with a "template" can do a lot to color one's perception, by omission, commission, half-truths, non-truths, taking out of context, quoting adversaries, etc. If you've gone through the evidence carefully, my hat's off to you. I've heard enough negative about Richard Feynman that would make me not want to get tight with the guy, assuming I were a contemporary. Lionizing any of these guys will lead to disillusion.

But the naysayer has a place. After reading some Christopher Hitchens stuff (another fellow I wouldn't invite for dinner), I'm not so hip on Mother Teresa anymore. Wry Then again, he could be totally full of feces. Hard to check on these things conclusively, and personally.

Quote:

Historical evidence also indicates that it was not the Einsteins that 'discovered' relativity in its 1905 form, but instead Larmor, Poincare, Lorentz, Lange, Voigt and others. Indeed it is a curious fact that the 1905 paper included no references, perhaps to lend the air of originality? It can be argued that there was nothing new introduced by Einstein other than a clever disguise for the work of others.


Our physics prof's take on it was he thought Special Relativity was going to happen as a theory, but Einstein put it together first (in a fairly comprehensive way) with his two axioms. I've read his "Kinematics Part" of that paper, but admit I did not (and still don't) have enough E&M knowledge to read the second part. This prof believed Special Relativity was Einstein's baby. Were his contemporaries skeptical that it was his? (Or his and his wife's?)

Quote:

But this isn't my only problem with Einstein. His status as an idol has plagued the further development of physical science, especially in the realm of cosmology. But this isn't merely Einsteins fault, it is the way that status quo 'science' is handed down to each generation as a set of 'known' facts. So few students of physics are taught about the history and original interpretations, the paradigms. In fact, they are left to their own device for learning such things and often ridiculed when truths are discovered that go against the mainstream interpretation.


Well, my problem with Einstein was his touchy-feely image he got later in life. I don't care what a rock star thinks about anything other than music, so why should I care what Einstein felt about love, pacifism, etc.?

Quote:
OK, you caught me, I am extremely jaded after having studied plasma astrophysics and cosmology and fighting against the status quo and their absurd dogmatic paradigm. All hail gravity! There is no EMAG, just ignore it!


Oh, projection disorder. Very Happy You got me, what's EMAG?

If we're not careful, this could get Bohring.

--Mike D.
Wes
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:20 pm
 Subject: Dude, that's a photoshop
Ionized
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:58 pm
 Subject: Bohring stuff ensues
geekonabike wrote:
Were his contemporaries skeptical that it was his? (Or his and his wife's?)


Indeed they were, though it is hardly well known. For instance, here is a quote from Max Born on talking of the 1905 paper "The striking point is that it contains not a single reference to previous literature. It gives you the impression of quite a new venture. But that is, of course, as I have tried to explain, not true."

Also, some guys called Lenard, Weyland, and Gehrcke directly accused him of "plagiarizing the math of Lorentz, the space-time of Palagyi, and the non-euclidean geometry of Varicak." Apparently Einsteins response to this was only to ad-hom attack his accusers. The press of the day played their part in keeping the facts hidden.

But this whole Einstein thing is just one example in the history of physics where plagiarism and popularity won out over truth. I won't get into the details but the field of cosmology is ripe with treachery, deceit, and manipulation of facts to expound a paradigm as 'truth' when it is nothing more than regurgitated interpretation used to hold up positions of stature and vast monetary support.

geekonabike wrote:

Oh, projection disorder. Very Happy You got me, what's EMAG?

If we're not careful, this could get Bohring.


Projection disorder? I had to look it up, still don't see what you meant though. Tongue

In plasma cosmology, electromagnetism (emag) is taken into account in the study of universal process and structure, from the planetary scale all the way up to the largest scales imaginable. This goes against the standard paradigm of considering only gravity and ignoring any effects of electromagnetism in the plasma that pervades all of space.

I'll keep what I think about 'Bohr' and the whole quantum debacle to myself lol, except to say that David Bohm should be required reading for anyone who was taught the status quo interpretation of QM.

Bohring! Let us go ride our bikes!
billmi
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:46 pm
 Subject: Re: That's one take on history.
Ionized wrote:
So few students of physics are taught about the history and original interpretations, the paradigms. In fact, they are left to their own device for learning such things and often ridiculed when truths are discovered that go against the mainstream interpretation.


True.

I quite believe that dark energy and dark matter are nothing but gaps between what existing physics theorems predict should be happening and what is really happening.
geekonabike
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:59 pm
 Subject: Re: Bohring stuff ensues
Ionized wrote:

Projection disorder? I had to look it up, still don't see what you meant though. Tongue


Probably made it up. Something about projecting your own bad things onto other people. Tried to work some kind of "projective geometry" into there but it wasn't working.

So physicists are a bunch of back-stabbers? Who would have thunk it.

In fact, there are good reasons like academics should never be put in charge of anything.

I prove that on a daily basis. Cheers

--Mike D.
jgiacobbe
Post Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:13 am
 Subject: Re: Bohring stuff ensues
And I thought I was geekish. And the pun in the subject should really have given it all away. I thought we were jsut a bunch or programsers and computer geeks with some regular joes and tinkerers thrown in. Shows me how wrong I was.
hickplaque
Post Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:07 pm
 Subject: photoshop! i have all the real ones

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